Community interest discussion - switching to PoS


#1

Hey folks,

Quite a few people in the community have expressed their interest in Neos switching from PoW - to full PoS after cutting off PoW at a certain height. This topic is here for feedback and discussion to determine the actual interest in doing this. Thoughts please.

Best regards,

syntaks


#2

So what would the benefits be to going POS over POW, and is there a particular interest rate that promotes better buy support with minimal dumping?

I have been playing with hyperstake, and for it being an admitted experiment it has a strong community.

If we were to go POS, would you be building a new algo since we are not Qt?

I am not opposed to POS, but I want to be sure that it is the best for our community.


#3

From what folks have expressed, it would take the battle with the bigger SHA rigs and power costs away as well as give them incentive to hold onto their Neos. It wouldn’t be a new algo as all of the work is done in the core. The Qt is just a wrapper for the core (the same as the web wallet is).

Best regards,

syntaks


#4

my vote would be for dpos, just like bitshares
that way people (delegates) would be rewarded for contributing to neos


#5

For the uninformed here…what is dpos yak?


#6

Yes I would like some more details as well.

I like the idea of POS as more people can join in the coin creation, but I also have some concerns about people doing more holding that circulating. Are people liking coins that have a hybrid POS/POW?

Also, is this conversation coming out of concerns of the low price? I have seen some communities panic as a price falls and start to request some major fundamental changes that seem to come off as a desperate quick fix. With this laundry list of wallet innovations, I don’t think price will be an issue much longer.

I guess my main concern will be whether a change comes off as innovation as opposed to manipulation.


#7

It’s been requested for quite some time actually if you look through the forum you’ll find at least one or two posts about it. It just wasn’t an option that was on the table because our focus has been just getting the interface and Neos to the point it’s at today before any drastic changes in the blockchain. I’m fully against manipulation, but completely for community requests.


#8

I have been and remain strongly in favor of NEOS including POS. I’m not presuming purely POS, haven’t evaluated that specific option, but it’s clear to me that POW is anything but the future – it simply costs too much! Energy is at a premium and that premium will only continue to grow! The result of POW becoming unaffordable is that blockchain maintenance will become more and more centralized, something that’s hardly good for the crypto community.

I admit to some collecting of certain other coins that have crazy built in POS inflation (drives down coin price). But there are more rational examples that provide much more sensible rates, neighborhood of 5% per annum non-compounded (next to no electricity cost, no halving concern). This is accumulation that doesn’t require special hardware, your wallet CPU is sufficient. Doesn’t require farms on Iceland – that’s POW! I pay 14.5 cts/KWH and that’s one serious bitch with POW (I understand in Europe it’s often much worse).

Yes, I strongly support NEOS with POS, whether it should be exclusively POS, I’m not sure! BTCD is exclusively POS and likewise XPY, whereas PEER and eMark are both, however, I don’t see a particular problem with going POS exclusive. We have the multipool and so people are still able to aim miners and achieve coin! (It’s necessary to have an existing stable coin holding in order to mine via POS!)

An argument against a super high rate of return is the tendency to hoard, better a balancing act between the desire to use the coin and the desire to achieve a return. Best practice may be to divide one’s wallet between coins for staking and coins for spending. Critical difference from POW being the electricity cost is near enough eliminated and so participation is easier! POW is shrinking the mining community, whereas POS can expand it again! Likewise, POS provides an incentive to hold coins for a tangible return! I see these as good things.

PS. Further thought, I really don’t see a clear need to remove POW, it provides another option.


#9

A couple articles discussing some POW Vs POS basics:
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoins-future-proof-of-stake-vs-proof-of-work/
http://coinjoint.info/proof-of-work-vs-proof-of-stake/

The more I’ve thought about this, the more I’m satisfied the best solution is both at the same time. Regarding the fairness issue raised in the second article, I consider the advent of the SHA-256 ASIC wars to have largely disenfranchised that argument. Its rapidly increasingly unaffordable to POW mine SHA-256 anymore. POS staking provides a partial leveler for that. It appears to me that to combine the two in a coin provides the best of both worlds while largely mitigating their disadvantages.

I vote for adding POS to NEOS, thereby adding its benefits, but don’t strip away POW. Both have pluses and minuses, let’s capitalize on both.

POS:
Takes next to no cpu power and so anyone with coins can stake.
Staking activity inherently broad based.
Inherent desirability to hold, but avoid excess (see TEK).
Avoid built-in penalty for selling (see PEER).

POW:
Coin acquisition doesn’t require coin possession.
Increasingly energy and tech intensive (ie. expensive).
Mining activity becoming more and more centralized.

Thoughts anyone?


#10

Thanks for the articles. I would put down a vote for POS and POW system if possible. I do like the idea of having a wallet in which I could store coins to earn a return and another portion of the wallet where I could spend. I don’t want to hoard, but it would be nice to have something I could earn a return on.